Tom has been given a much bigger role this time around, what's your opinion on it? Is he being used to his fullest? Or do you think he's not being used as well as he could be?
Tom has been given a much bigger role this time around, what's your opinion on it? Is he being used to his fullest? Or do you think he's not being used as well as he could be?
I think any development with Tom doesn't have to revolve around Star. For the person that said he was more than just a Star character developement enabler, I want to believe that. But that is obviously not what we have seen so far. Everytime he's been on screen, Star was related in some way. I guess you could argue with Freniemes that the purpose was to build up Marco's and Tom's friendship, but the conflict between them initially happened because of Star. There's no developmental arc that does not include Star in any way, shape or form. What about JUST a Tom episode? I want to learn more about his past and how his royalty shapes up the underworld, and how it's like living as a demon. I'm just saying that there isn't anything that could be gained more with Tomstar being a thing than with them being great friends. The way Tomstar got together even regressed Star's development a little bit. I just think that there isn't much purpose to their relationship. I was already annoyed that they got back together because of Tom's story arc for two seasons going to waste, but from the past few episodes, I just see their relationship more as a hinderance. Hopefully they can develop it a little more so it doesn't seem like a huge waste of time.
I actually want the best for Tom. I ship Starco endlessly, and I was one of those people that didn't mind Jarco at all and genuinely gave Tomstar a chance even when I was so annoyed. But I just saw more harm then good since they got together and as of now, I want them to end as soon as possible.
And about Marco, he was just reacting to all the crap thrown at him. First off, about his obsession with Mewni....can you blame him? He spent most of his summer hanging with Star in her dimension, and was convinced that River made him his most trusted confidant. When he finally realized that he is not happy on Earth BECAUSE of those life changing experinces on Mewni, he arrives there only to be made a mockery by most of the royal palace. Even River with his old meat blanket nonsense. Star didn't even want him to be there and evidently tried to keep him away from her. Oh yeah, Marco was TOTALLY in the wrong for coming and he is unsympathetic for not taking Star's conflicted feelings into consideration. Oh yeah, wait, he wasn't even aware of how his arrival made Star feel. It's not like she even faces her problems head on anyway and ya know....talks it out. Instead she was indirectly blaming Marco for feeling that way by lashing out at him. With the whole Stump Day thing too! Everyone wants to blame Marco for throwing Star the party when they see that she doesn't want it. Tom actually threw Marco under the bus too. You'd think by being Star's boyfriend previously, he'd known about that little detail. But no. So I don't think Marco became so unlikeable on purpose; he's just retaliating back. He's been such a pushover and a safe kid for long, so it's about time he lets his voice be heard, damn it. Other instances where he had to do all the work himself and/or gotten crap from it, Trial by Squire and Lava Lake Beach. Y'all have to admit, Tom and Star were pretty careless in that episode and had no desire to help Kelly like the way Marco wanted to.
But yeah, I went off topic with my rant, haha. The first half of Season 3 was very frustrating, so I needed to let that out. Regarding back to Tom's stance in this show, I want way more from him. And he doesn't need Star as an enabler for his development because we got nothing out of them being a couple so far. It's not even one instance that their relationship was shown to be a hinderance, there were quite a few since they got back together. Almost back to back. That definitely foreshadows something, and it's not anything good.
OH MY GOSH, THANK YOU!!! Thank you for taking your time to write this huge explanation that even I couldn't make! This is exactly what I wanted!
2. that's an awful way for marco to have any of that, as his crush was very shoehorned in with litte buildup, not to mention what his crush has turned him into, marco has gotten worse, not improved.How Marco's crush was done was awful, which is amazing considering star's was done much better last season. There was no set up at all, marco just suddenly likes star now, despite thinking dating her would be creepy not that long ago.
3. for your destined to fail comment to be correct it would only go two ways, it repeats jarco's plot, or it ruins tom and star's relationship. Neither choice is very appealing. Only way you would stop either of those if an external force seperated them, which granted, sounds much more interesting depending on what you go with.
4., you skipped reason 4.
5. Yeah, and it's also alot more respected and well-liked by the crew as well. You could do alot with tom and star's relationship considering the dynamic, story, history as these two have known each other since they were kids, ect. It would kinda be a wasted oppertunity to not do more with that and make this instead a plot point for marco to become more unlikable this season to his friends then he already was acting.
Ahhhh....about Marco, there was no indication of him believing that dating Star would be creepy. We actually got no response on what he felt at the time, because.....he was with Jackie! What did you expect him to say? He was very confused! Who knows, maybe the thought of dating Star came across the lad's mind a few times throughout all their adventures together. We are pretty much confirmed that Marco only liked the idea of being with Jackie and was too hellbent on maintaining his crush on her despite not doing anything about it. As a result, he never got to learn about her, and when he did, it was too little too late. Star was already very much apart of his life. Completely shifting from one thing to the next was never part of Marco's character; he always liked to be safe and just crush on Jackie in silence. It's not like Marco was just going to break up with Jackie like that. We never knew of his true feelings for Star at that moment, so don't say he felt 'creeped out' by it. For this reason, I don't think the crush came out of nowhere, persay.
2. that's an awful way for marco to have any of that, as his crush was very shoehorned in with litte buildup, not to mention what his crush has turned him into, marco has gotten worse, not improved.How Marco's crush was done was awful, which is amazing considering star's was done much better last season. There was no set up at all, marco just suddenly likes star now, despite thinking dating her would be creepy not that long ago.
3. for your destined to fail comment to be correct it would only go two ways, it repeats jarco's plot, or it ruins tom and star's relationship. Neither choice is very appealing. Only way you would stop either of those if an external force seperated them, which granted, sounds much more interesting depending on what you go with.
4., you skipped reason 4.
5. Yeah, and it's also alot more respected and well-liked by the crew as well. You could do alot with tom and star's relationship considering the dynamic, story, history as these two have known each other since they were kids, ect. It would kinda be a wasted oppertunity to not do more with that and make this instead a plot point for marco to become more unlikable this season to his friends then he already was acting.
Watch Starcrushed again then, Marco was extremely uncomfortable with it, and was relieved when Star and him seemed to have sorted things out without issue.
If marco somehow liked Star this whole time, why didn't her confession or even the song day incident trigger anything? Instead, marco just ignored both those incedints, and instead, Tad of all characters pretty much assumed marco liked star, and then marco miracoulsey liked star without really considering the idea much even after those events.
Star had episodes worth of those feelings being built, marco had only one ep of build-up, the same ep he apparenlty he had discovered he had a thing for her in.
I feel that Tom is suffering from screenwriter's discretion disease. He is there just to further the romantic subplot and unless we see him having a more plot-heavy role, I don't believe he is going to be anything but a flat, boring character.
I personally liked Tom the way he was before all the season 3 events happened (most notably, Demoncism, Club Snubbed, Lava Lake Beach and Monster Bash). He was this archetype of a character that, in spite of being just a repeated cliché, was quite funny to watch. He was severely flawed with his anger issues and his end-goal was to get back together with Star. Now with this goal achieved...there is nothing to strive to. He is purposeless to the show now, and has become a tool to create romantic tension.
I am not against his character development. His change was beautifully written, the reasoning behind it was quite sincere and befitting him, so it isn't awkward in the least. Trying to rid himself of his anger issues, time and time again through more drastic measures until they finally reached their peak was truly a feat of willpower and to that I say, more power to you, Tom!
However, in broad terms, he is basic. The average day-to-day boyfriend, with basic needs, and not one ounce of character motivation left. There is no conflict for him to be a part of. Everyone knows supporting characters with no fire in their hearts are just bland.
Plus, as said before ever so eloquently by Jade Her Majesty, he is entirely dependent on Star and/or Marco. And that is so unnerving because there are so many arcs that can be explored with him, his past, his family, and so many others, again previously discussed. Making a character independent is the sacred key of screenwriting, and unfortunately, all the people revolve around Star and Marco. And they don't need to, at all.
To conclude this word fest on Tom, I feel that his persona, as basic as it is right now, can undergo a drastic change, should it be more thoroughly explored. If we could see him truly unleash his personality on screen (the new one, not the angry one from before), then he would become one of the best examples of 'villain turned good guy'.
Oh, and to hop on the Marco bandwagon, cut the guy some slack. He had his world turned upside-down then he turned it himself upside down, then it was turned some more, until no one knows up from down. He's just a poor boy in a big, unknown and strange world. He's basically Star on Earth only Marco on Mewni.
I think that Star and Tom being an actual thing for a long time would give a really good twist to the story. And I also think that Marco should step back and don't ruin such a nice relationship, as Star did with Jarco. Actually I think Star did it great and it was really mature from her to do such a thing. Marco has been an awful friend lately and I don't think that he deserves Star. At least not now.
Also why is people saying that Storm is collapsing? I think that they are doing pretty good.
they're becoming stronger together, not falling apart.
and i would also like to remain positive, anything can happen, but if tomstar breaks up then really it only makes the season worse by pretty much presenting another good relationship that wasn't needed and felt wasted. If the crew is at least a little smarter about this, they won't repeat plots again and give tomstar a little more respect within the show.
Also, after jarco, it would be painfully predicatable and annoying to see the same plot twice.
Why would you prefer Tomstar to endgame? Why would Tom and Star being together be painful? I think that Star had her time to suffer, maybe now is Marco's. I personally don't think that Jarco was that painful. Perhaps it was Star being strong or trying to show herself that way that makes me think that Jarco being a thing was not the end of the world. I think it is not predictable, Jackie and Tom are two different kind of people (people/half demon). They will act differently from each other. You can actually notice easily that Jackie doesn't seem as a jealous person but Tom does (also he is a half demon prince from the UnderWorld and Jackie isn't) . So that is something that will make the story not repetitive.
I personally liked Tom the way he was before all the season 3 events happened (most notably, Demoncism, Club Snubbed, Lava Lake Beach and Monster Bash). He was this archetype of a character that, in spite of being just a repeated cliché, was quite funny to watch. He was severely flawed with his anger issues and his end-goal was to get back together with Star. Now with this goal achieved...there is nothing to strive to. He is purposeless to the show now, and has become a tool to create romantic tension.
I am not against his character development. His change was beautifully written, the reasoning behind it was quite sincere and befitting him, so it isn't awkward in the least. Trying to rid himself of his anger issues, time and time again through more drastic measures until they finally reached their peak was truly a feat of willpower and to that I say, more power to you, Tom!
However, in broad terms, he is basic. The average day-to-day boyfriend, with basic needs, and not one ounce of character motivation left. There is no conflict for him to be a part of. Everyone knows supporting characters with no fire in their hearts are just bland.
Plus, as said before ever so eloquently by Jade Her Majesty, he is entirely dependent on Star and/or Marco. And that is so unnerving because there are so many arcs that can be explored with him, his past, his family, and so many others, again previously discussed. Making a character independent is the sacred key of screenwriting, and unfortunately, all the people revolve around Star and Marco. And they don't need to, at all.
To conclude this word fest on Tom, I feel that his persona, as basic as it is right now, can undergo a drastic change, should it be more thoroughly explored. If we could see him truly unleash his personality on screen (the new one, not the angry one from before), then he would become one of the best examples of 'villain turned good guy'.
Oh, and to hop on the Marco bandwagon, cut the guy some slack. He had his world turned upside-down then he turned it himself upside down, then it was turned some more, until no one knows up from down. He's just a poor boy in a big, unknown and strange world. He's basically Star on Earth only Marco on Mewni.
it's hard to cut marco any slack, when marco is allowed a free pass to constantly act this way to his friends, and suffers no reprocusions for any of it. Marco is more rewarded for his actions then anything, and it hurts to see him treat people this way and get away with it because he's marco i guess? Marco doesn't even feel bad about this stuff much and it doesn't feel like him anymore. I know he's going through alot but it's really uncomfortable having him act these ways, but never seems to get called out for any of it.
He's just allowed to hurt others, but as long as they aren't Star it doesn't matter ?
I think that Star and Tom being an actual thing for a long time would give a really good twist to the story. And I also think that Marco should step back and don't ruin such a nice relationship, as Star did with Jarco. Actually I think Star did it great and it was really mature from her to do such a thing. Marco has been an awful friend lately and I don't think that he deserves Star. At least not now.
Also why is people saying that Storm is collapsing? I think that they are doing pretty good.
they're becoming stronger together, not falling apart.
and i would also like to remain positive, anything can happen, but if tomstar breaks up then really it only makes the season worse by pretty much presenting another good relationship that wasn't needed and felt wasted. If the crew is at least a little smarter about this, they won't repeat plots again and give tomstar a little more respect within the show.
Also, after jarco, it would be painfully predicatable and annoying to see the same plot twice.
Because there's alot of potential you could do with that relationship that you could'nt do with any other and it would be interesting to watch the show take that kinda route.
It would'nt, breaking them up and wasting their relationship would be painful.
I don't think jarco was painful either, i wish they had gotten more though.
Yeah, i know tom is different from jackie, but the fandom sure thinks Tom will do exactly what jackie did. Which is why that bothers me so much.
Jess-the-vampire wrote:
2. that's an awful way for marco to have any of that, as his crush was very shoehorned in with litte buildup, not to mention what his crush has turned him into, marco has gotten worse, not improved.How Marco's crush was done was awful, which is amazing considering star's was done much better last season. There was no set up at all, marco just suddenly likes star now, despite thinking dating her would be creepy not that long ago.
3. for your destined to fail comment to be correct it would only go two ways, it repeats jarco's plot, or it ruins tom and star's relationship. Neither choice is very appealing. Only way you would stop either of those if an external force seperated them, which granted, sounds much more interesting depending on what you go with.
4., you skipped reason 4.
5. Yeah, and it's also alot more respected and well-liked by the crew as well. You could do alot with tom and star's relationship considering the dynamic, story, history as these two have known each other since they were kids, ect. It would kinda be a wasted oppertunity to not do more with that and make this instead a plot point for marco to become more unlikable this season to his friends then he already was acting.
Watch Starcrushed again then, Marco was extremely uncomfortable with it, and was relieved when Star and him seemed to have sorted things out without issue.
If marco somehow liked Star this whole time, why didn't her confession or even the song day incident trigger anything? Instead, marco just ignored both those incedints, and instead, Tad of all characters pretty much assumed marco liked star, and then marco miracoulsey liked star without really considering the idea much even after those events.
Star had episodes worth of those feelings being built, marco had only one ep of build-up, the same ep he apparenlty he had discovered he had a thing for her in.
But Marco did consider everything. Their relationship started to change after he was told by the song that Star was in love with him. They started to avoid each other throughout the whole episode, and after Star officially confessed to him, he didn't know what to do. We don't know officially how he felt during Starcrushed; he didn't even get a word in since Star ran off. He was shocked at best because of the confession. That doesn't equal to him being 'creeped out'. So was Star creeped out too because she was avoiding Marco just the same? No, they were just both scared and they both didn't know what to do because they didn't want to change their dynamic.
What about all that build up during Battle for Mewni, huh? How depressed he was when Star left, how he came all the way to Mewni just to give her favorite cereal, their reunion, how he literally punched Toffee because it was perceived that Star was dead? How about in Scent of a Hoodie during their farewells and how awkwardly adorable they were being to each other? About how hard it was for him to leave Mewni and Star? How about when he got back his hoodie in the mail, said it smelt like Star, and sniffed it once more? What about his obsession with Mewni yet also his indirect revelation of missing Star in the process in Sophomore Slump? What about the excitement he felt when he thought he would be working in the castle alongside Star only to feel upset that she was pushing him away in Lint Catcher? It didn't conspire out of nowhere in Lava Lake Beach. All those signs hinted to something. That confession from Star clicked in him and since then we start to see some changes within him. It's sad that Jackie was in the mix of that, but we do see a change in Marco.
Pandoradoomer wrote: I feel that Tom is suffering from screenwriter's discretion disease. He is there just to further the romantic subplot and unless we see him having a more plot-heavy role, I don't believe he is going to be anything but a flat, boring character.
I personally liked Tom the way he was before all the season 3 events happened (most notably, Demoncism, Club Snubbed, Lava Lake Beach and Monster Bash). He was this archetype of a character that, in spite of being just a repeated cliché, was quite funny to watch. He was severely flawed with his anger issues and his end-goal was to get back together with Star. Now with this goal achieved...there is nothing to strive to. He is purposeless to the show now, and has become a tool to create romantic tension.
I am not against his character development. His change was beautifully written, the reasoning behind it was quite sincere and befitting him, so it isn't awkward in the least. Trying to rid himself of his anger issues, time and time again through more drastic measures until they finally reached their peak was truly a feat of willpower and to that I say, more power to you, Tom!
However, in broad terms, he is basic. The average day-to-day boyfriend, with basic needs, and not one ounce of character motivation left. There is no conflict for him to be a part of. Everyone knows supporting characters with no fire in their hearts are just bland.
Plus, as said before ever so eloquently by Jade Her Majesty, he is entirely dependent on Star and/or Marco. And that is so unnerving because there are so many arcs that can be explored with him, his past, his family, and so many others, again previously discussed. Making a character independent is the sacred key of screenwriting, and unfortunately, all the people revolve around Star and Marco. And they don't need to, at all.
To conclude this word fest on Tom, I feel that his persona, as basic as it is right now, can undergo a drastic change, should it be more thoroughly explored. If we could see him truly unleash his personality on screen (the new one, not the angry one from before), then he would become one of the best examples of 'villain turned good guy'.
Oh, and to hop on the Marco bandwagon, cut the guy some slack. He had his world turned upside-down then he turned it himself upside down, then it was turned some more, until no one knows up from down. He's just a poor boy in a big, unknown and strange world. He's basically Star on Earth only Marco on Mewni.
Thank you! I'm not the only one that's annoyed that the writers made him without any purpose anymore. And you're right! As least there was a goal he was trying to achieve before on top with all that character development. But now that the goal was reached, it actually reverts his character development. I really liked how he had to learn to get over Star and his anger issues, and it made everything more entertaining to watch. Now I find him kinda grating to say the least, because he's just their to build up that romantic plot.